Realtime mining hardware profitability | ASIC Miner Value

Obelisk's Sia ASICs - Full Details

https://obelisk.tech
Sia is releasing a 28nm, full-custom ASIC. This ASIC will be a complete package, similar to an antminer. You will receive a mining box that includes chips, power supplies, etc. Minimal setup will be required to get the miner working.
The miner is in early development already. We have begun the process of chip design, hardware design, and supply chain management. We have had conversations with previous ASIC manufacturers, and we have been warned about delays, unexpected costs, and myriads of pitfalls that throw off estimations. For this reason, we have set a conservative shipping date of June 2018. If the miners are ready sooner, they will be shipped sooner. If all goes well (and it rarely does, especially for first time manufacturers), we could see the miners shipping before March 2018.
Following the presale, we will be posting a development roadmap on our website that includes all the major steps of development. We will be crossing off steps in the roadmap as we complete them, which will allow the community to follow our progress, have visibility into delays, and will be able to see the places where we are ahead of or behind schedule.
The estimated hashrate is 100 GH/s. We will not know the exact hashrate until later in the development process, however we have confidence that 100 GH/s is a low bar to hit. We may end up shipping miners with a much higher hashrate, and will continue updating the estimated hashrate as we get more accurate estimates for how the chips will perform. The estimated power draw is 500w, though it may be significantly less.
The price of the unit is going to be $2499. Chip manufacturing is expensive, supply chains are expensive, and there are a lot of single-time costs that go into making miners. Future batches will likely have lower prices, however they will also ship later.
We will be selling the miners for Bitcoin. We expect the sale volume to be very large (in the tens of millions of dollars), and we feared that the Sia cryptocurrency would not have enough liquidity to handle all of that volume, resulting in the price rising quickly as people scramble to buy Siacoin for the ASIC, and then the price falling quickly as we convert the Siacoin to USD. This is the worst of both worlds - participants buy the siacoin at a premium, and then we sell them at a discount. Bitcoin has much, much deeper liquidity, and we can sell large volume of Bitcoin quickly without moving the price too much.
We will be converting the Bitcoin to USD as fast as possible. If the price fluctuates by more than 5% before we are able to convert, we will need to request more coins to cover the difference, or cancel the order. If the price fluctuates upwards by more than 5% before we convert, we will return the difference.
The sale and shipment of ASICs on the Sia network is going to dramatically increase the hashrate. When considering how much revenue you may get from a unit, please take into account the fact that we are selling enough units to potentially 10x or 100x the difficulty. If another ASIC manufacturer decides to start selling Sia ASICs, the hashrate may go up by more than just the number of units we sell. Please also consider that the block reward is decreasing. Today, the block reward is about 189,000 siacoins per block. By June 2018, our ship date, the block reward is going to be closer to 135,000 siacoins per block, decreasing by 1 siacoin per block (or 4320 siacoins per month).
The presale will be open for 7 days. There is no rush - people who buy on the fourth day will receive the same treatment as people who buy on the first day. The sale will not close early, and while we reserve the right to deny purchases, we have chosen not to put a cap on the number of units sold. We may pre-sell additional batches before the first batch ships. The first batch will have priority when we begin shipping, and if the later batches will be shipping shortly after, those later batches will be sold at a higher price. People who buy in on the first batch will receive both price preference and shipping date preference as a reward for taking on the most risk.
Obelisk is the company that will be producing these chips. Obelisk is a fully owned subsidiary of Nebulous Inc. Nebulous is the company that employs all of the Sia core developers.
Obelisk has plans for growth in the future. None of these plans are finalized as we are primarily focusing on shipping this miner, but potential future products include:
Finally, we plan to introduce decentralized mining pools into the Sia ecosystem before we ship the miners. Hosts will have the option of running their own mining pool, and then miners can detect the hosts by checking the blockchain and the peer network, forming payment channel contracts with them and participating in fully decentralized mining. This should help alleviate the pool centralization that is seen in most PoW cryptocurrencies.
We are very excited about our new company, and hope that you share in our excitement. Feel free to ask any questions.
submitted by Taek42 to siacoin [link] [comments]

ASICBOOST isn't an efficiency gain

Lets take a few hypothetical scenarios:
All ASIC's move from 28nm tech to 16nm tech.
-More work is being done, therefore more security
ASICBOOST is released for free and all ASIC's adopt it
-Same amount of work is being done, security is the same
ASICBOOST is patented and only specific miners can use it
-Same amount of work is being done, but causes miner centralization.
 
Bitcoin's security is provided by work (proof of work). Actual work has to be done to increase security. "Shortcuts" do not increase security. ASICBOOST doesn't do more work, it lets you pretend that you did more than you actually did. It is not an efficiency gain, it is a shortcut. It is disenguous to compare it to other efficiency gains where more work was done.
The correct terminology to describe ASICBOOST is that it is a cryptographic attack.
 
Definition:
A cryptographic attack is a method for circumventing the security of a cryptographic system by finding a weakness in a code, cipher, cryptographic protocol or key management scheme.
 
The cryptographic attack used by ASICBOOST is colliding message blocks.
This same cryptographic attack, colliding message blocks, was used by Google in February 2017 to decrease the security of SHA-1 from 2128 to 261. This allows anyone with a powerful computer cluster to produce full hash collisions for SHA-1, completely breaking its security. This means that an attacker can produce two files with the same hash if they execute this attack and compute 261 operations.
 
More about the SHA-1 attack here:
http://shattered.io
This page contains two different files with the same SHA-1 hash proving that SHA-1 is not secure and cannot be used to verify the integrity of files.
Whitepaper on the colliding message block attack on SHA-1 that was used by Google:
http://shattered.io/static/shattered.pdf
 
ASICBOOST uses colliding message blocks to reduce the security of SHA-256 from 2256 to approximately 2255.48. In practice, this is negligible. However, if a new attack similar to ASICBOOST was revealed that reduced the security to somewhere in the order of 261, Bitcoin mining would be completely broken. It would be possible to mine a block, no matter the difficulty, with 261 operations, which is very achievable with today's technology.
 
Calling ASICBOOST an efficiency gain is very wrong.
Leaving cryptographic attacks unpatched sets a bad precedent that we don't care about these kinds of attacks. When a more serious cryptographic attack is found people will point to this one and say "why was that one allowed". It needs to be clear that we will patch any vulnerabilities on SHA-256
submitted by cowardlyalien to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Updated FAQs for newcomers

TL:DR: Don't bother mining if you want to get rich yo. You're way too late to the party.
Welcome to the exciting and often stressful world of bitcoin! You are wondering what looks like a once in a lifetime opportunity to get rich quick. Of course you guys probably heard about this "mining" process but what is this?
Simply put, a bitcoin mining machine that performs complicated calculations and when deemed correct by the network, receives a block which contains 25 bitcoins (XBT). This is how bitcoins are generated. So your brain instantly thinks, "Holy shit, how can I get on this gold rush?"
Before you proceed further, I would like to explain the concept of mining further. Bitcoin is limited 21m in circulation. It is coded to release a certain number of blocks at a certain time frame, ie: this year the network will release close to 500,000 bitcoins. What this means is that the more people (or specifically the amount of mining power) mine, the less each person gets. The network tries to keep to this time frame through the process of difficulty adjustments which makes the calculations harder and this happens every 2 weeks. So every 2 weeks, you get less bitcoins with the same hash rate (mining power) based on what the difficulty changes are. Recently, the changes have been pretty staggering, jumping 226% in 2 months. You can see the difficulty changes here.
Now, why are these changes so large?
A bit of a simple history. Bitcoin's algorithm runs on SHA-256. This algorithm can be solved using many hardware, from CPU to GPU and dedicated hardware (Application Specific Integrated Circuits). When bitcoin first started, mining on CPU was a trivial process, you can pretty much earn 50 XBT (the block size then) every few hours between Q1 and Q2 of 2010.
In late 2010, due to the difficulty increase that is reducing the effectiveness of CPU mining, people started to harness GPU mining. Only AMD GPU's architecture design are better optimized for bitcoin mining so this is what the community used. Immediate improvements of more than 10x was not uncommon.
In time of course, GPUs reached their limit and people started to build dedicated. In the same vein as the CPU to GPU transition, similar performance increase was common. These ASICs can only perform SHA-256 calculation so they can be highly optimized. Their performance mainly depends on the die size of the chips exactly like CPU chips.
In general, think of bitcoin mining's technological advancement no different to mining gold. Gold panning (CPUs) vs pickaxes (GPUs) vs machinery (ASICs) and we are still in the ASIC mining race.
ASIC mining started with ASICMiner and Avalon being first to the market, both producing 130nm and 110nm chips. The technology are antiquated in comparison to CPUs and GPUs which are now 22nm with 14nm slated for Q1 next year by Intel but they are cheap to manufacture and with performance gains similar to the CPU to GPU transition, they were highly successful and popular for early adopters. At that point in time since there were less competing manufacturers and the low batch runs of their products, miners became really rich due to the slow increase in difficulty.
The good days came to an end mid August with an unprecedented 35% increase in difficulty. This is due to existing manufacturers selling more hardware and many other players coming onto the market with better hardware (smaller die). Since die shrinking knowledge and manufacturing process are well known along with a large technological gap (110nm vs 22nm), you get an arms race. Current ASIC makers are closing in on our technological limit and until everyone catches up, the difficulty jumps will be high because it is just too easy to get a performance increase. Most newer products run at 28nm and most chips are not well optimized, so it will be around another 6 to 9 months before we see hit a hard plateau with 22nm or 14nm chips. The estimated time frame is because manufacturing chips at 22nm or 14nm is a more difficult and expensive task. In the meantime most manufacturers will probably settle at 28nm and we will reach a soft plateau in about 3 months.
Now, you might ask these questions and should have them answered and if you have not thought about them at all, then you probably should not touch bitcoin until you understand cause you are highly unprepared and probably lose lots of money.
No. If you have to ask, please do not touch bitcoin yet. You will spend more on electricity cost than mining any substantial bitcoin. Seriously. At all. A 7990 would produce a pitiful 0.02879 XBT (USD $14 @ $500/XBT exchange rate) for the next 30 days starting 23 Nov 2013 at 35% difficulty increase.
And if you think you can mine on your laptop either on a CPU or GPU, you are probably going to melt it before you even get 0.01 XBT.
Probably not because you probably forgot that GPUs and CPUs produce a ton of heat and noise. You can try but I see no point earning < $20 bucks per month.
No, because your machine will probably not mine as much as buying bitcoins. This situation is called the opportunity cost. While you can still make money if XBT rise in value, it is a fallacy.
IE: if you start mining on 1 Dec 2013, a KnC Jupiter running at 450Gh/sec (KnC lies as not all chips run at 550Gh/sec) will yield you a total revenue of 9.5189 XBT with a profit of 0.7859 XBT in profit by 30th Jan 2014 at a constant difficulty increase of 35%. The opportunity cost is: 8.5910 XBT @ USD $580/XBT with USD $5,000 which is the cost of a KnC Jupiter. This is the best you can earn and it's a bloody optimistic assumption because:
The only circumstances where you will earn money is when XBT exchange rates is so high that it makes the opportunity cost pales in comparison. Unfortunately this is not the case. If XBT stabilized at 900/XBT today (20 Nov 2013) then we might have a good case.
The risk is just generally not worth it. Unless you have at least a hundred thousand and can make a contract with a manufacturer for a lower cost, do not bother. Just wait until the arms race is over then you can start mining.
Okay, go buy an AsicMiner USB Block Erupter. They are cheap and pretty fun to have.
Sure, just read the answer below on who NOT to go for. You are doing bitcoin a service by securing the network and you have our (the users') gratitude.
You can check out the manufacturers and their products below along with a calculator here.
If you still insist on buying, do not to go for BFL. Their track record is horrid and borderline scammish. KnC fucked up a lot with defective boards and chips. Personally, I think CoinTerra is the best choice.
Alternatively, you can go on the secondary market to buy a delivered product. You can get a better deal there if you know how to do your "return on investment (ROI)" calculation. Personally, I will go for a 45%-50% difficulty increase for the next 3 months for my calculations and a 2% pool fee.
However, most products on ebay are sold at a cost much higher than it should. bitcointalk.org is a cheaper place because everyone knows what are the true value is so you will find less options. If you are unclear or need assistance, please post a question.
I actually do not use any of the pools recommended to the left because I think they lack features.
My favourite is Bitminter (Variable fees based on features used; max 2%). It has all advanced features for a pool, very responsive and helpful owner on IRC. Variable fees is good for those who do not need a large feature set, even with all features turned on, it is still cheap.
Eligius (0% fees) has high value for money but lacks features. It has anonymous mining which might be attractive to certain subset of people but not for others. Many other community member and I disagree highly with the opinions of the owner on the direction of bitcoin. I do use his pool for now but I do so only because I share my miners with a few partners and anonymous mining allows us to monitor the machines without using an account. Bitminter uses only OpenID which is problematic for me.
BTC Guild (3% fees) is another big pool and is fully featured and does charge a premium for their fees. That said, they are the most stable of the lot. I do use them but do so only because my hoster uses them for monitoring. I try not to use them because a pool with a very large hash rate (they are the largest) presents a large vulnerability to bitcoin's network if compromised.
All of them pay out transaction fees.
submitted by Coz131 to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

ASICBOOST isn't an efficiency gain

Lets take a few hypothetical scenarios:
All ASIC's move from 28nm tech to 16nm tech.
-More work is being done, therefore more security
ASICBOOST is released for free and all ASIC's adopt it
-Same amount of work is being done, security is the same
ASICBOOST is patented and only specific miners can use it
-Same amount of work is being done, but causes miner centralization.
 
Bitcoin's security is provided by work (proof of work). Actual work has to be done to increase security. "Shortcuts" do not increase security. ASICBOOST doesn't do more work, it lets you pretend that you did more than you actually did. It is not an efficiency gain, it is a shortcut. It is disenguous to compare it to other efficiency gains where more work was done.
The correct terminology to describe ASICBOOST is that it is a cryptographic attack.
 
Definition:
A cryptographic attack is a method for circumventing the security of a cryptographic system by finding a weakness in a code, cipher, cryptographic protocol or key management scheme.
 
The cryptographic attack used by ASICBOOST is colliding message blocks.
This same cryptographic attack, colliding message blocks, was used by Google in February 2017 to decrease the security of SHA-1 from 2128 to 261. This allows anyone with a powerful computer cluster to produce full hash collisions for SHA-1, completely breaking its security. This means that an attacker can produce two files with the same hash if they execute this attack and compute 261 operations.
 
More about the SHA-1 attack here:
http://shattered.io
This page contains two different files with the same SHA-1 hash proving that SHA-1 is not secure and cannot be used to verify the integrity of files.
Whitepaper on the colliding message block attack on SHA-1 that was used by Google:
http://shattered.io/static/shattered.pdf
 
ASICBOOST uses colliding message blocks to reduce the security of SHA-256 from 2256 to approximately 2255.48. In practice, this is negligible. However, if a new attack similar to ASICBOOST was revealed that reduced the security to somewhere in the order of 261, Bitcoin mining would be completely broken. It would be possible to mine a block, no matter the difficulty, with 261 operations, which is very achievable with today's technology.
 
Calling ASICBOOST an efficiency gain is very wrong.
Leaving cryptographic attacks unpatched sets a bad precedent that we don't care about these kinds of attacks. When a more serious cryptographic attack is found people will point to this one and say "why was that one allowed". It needs to be clear that we will patch any vulnerabilities on SHA-256
submitted by cowardlyalien to btc [link] [comments]

Is all mining now negative return-on-investment?

I have been closely watching the mining scene for only about 3 months, so excuse me if this sort of question is asked frequently, or is too speculative.
Is all BTC mining now underwater, with a negative ROI?
That's what it looks like to me. I initially got interested years ago, when the return was small and BTC was not worth much. I didn't mine because it seemed like a miniscule return on investment. Oh I wish I had started back then, those "worthless" BTCs would be worth a lot now.
But I started getting more interested again when that Ars Technica article on the BFL Jalapeno appeared. Holy crap, a machine that prints free money. He made hundreds of bucks in a week.
So I started checking it out. With the delays in BFL's product shipping, all the mining calculators show that any new investment in mining hardware will never break even. Difficulty is increasing so fast, that the only machines making money are already in place, and soon they won't even pay for the cost of electricity.
Now just to screw this up even further, BFL did a classic "Osborne Effect" announcement of their new Monarch board. Their existing ASIC machines are obsolete. The new 28nm machine that does not exist yet, is promised to deliver 600Gh for 350 watts, and costs $4680. I ran the numbers through the mining calculator at The Genesis Block. Unfortunately their calculator seems to be down at the moment, but I recall running numbers on a Monarch, delivered even in December, would not break even unless BTC went up to 2000 per dollar!
Now even accounting for BFL's broken promises, if I could buy mining hardware like this today and turn it on now, it would make a negative ROI. I run the numbers for every possible hardware I could buy, none of them are as cheap in dollars/Gh or Gh/watt as the Monarch. And none of them break even.
I decided to track the existing performance of mining using my dinky Mac mini's GPU. It won't mine much, and GPU mining will never break even in a network full of ASICs. But it would give a rough index of how difficulty is affecting mining. Here's a rough description of my results. At this point, it looks like mining is doubling in difficulty every month. Nobody can make money unless either BTC rises in value dramatically, or the majority of miners give up and unplug their unprofitable mining hardware.
So someone tell me if this assessment is realistic or not. At the moment, it looks like any new investment in mining hardware will result in turning every dollar of investment into 50 cents worth of BTC at most. With increasing difficulty, soon even existing mining hardware will be turning every dollar of electricity into less than a dollar worth of BTC. ROI is underwater now for new hardware, and soon will be underwater for all hardware, even advanced ASICs that haven't even shipped yet. There are only two ways that mining might ever make a profit. One is if almost everyone gives up when their miners become unprofitable. The other is if BTC goes up massively in value to like $2500/USD, which will only fuel the arms race even more.
Yeah, I know there is a big incentive to spread disinformation to convince people to drop out of mining. So don't try to BS me. Let me hear your honest assessments, or please point me in a direction where I can do research to figure this out.
submitted by nmrk to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

Has everyone noticed that the difficulty retarget time is now 9 days and decreasing?

Looking at http://mining.thegenesisblock.com we can see the last 5 difficulty retarget times were 10 days and the most recently being 9 days. Retarget times were usually every 14 days (edit: for 2016 blocks) and so twice a month. Difficulty changes 3 times a month! Is this sustainable? Also with more ASICs coming online and better ASIC development every month now this difficulty explosion increase is going to continue. We are starting to see 28nm chips as part of ASICs but we still haven't seen the 14nm chips come to existence and then what? 7 nm chips? then quntumn computing after that? I predict we won't plateau for a 2 years at this rate. What do you all think will happen to mining profitability and how does it affect the bitcoin viability?
submitted by Justlite to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

AntMiner S5 ~1155Gh s @ 0.51W Gh 28nm ASIC Bitcoin Miner MintForge.com 1TH/s (1000 GH/s) CoinCraft A1 28nm ASIC Bitcoin Miner Preview GN 28nm ASIC + Yoli Evo Mining Board= 722 GH/s AntMiner S4 ~2000Gh s @ 0 69W Gh 28nm ASIC Bitcoin Miner ASICMiner Block Erupter USB

Live income estimation of all known ASIC miners, updated every minute. Profits calculated over 200+ coins and 25+ algorithms. Model Release Hashrate Power Noise Algo Profitability /day; Aladdin Miner 16Th/s Bitcoin. Jul 2018. 16 Th/s. 1400 W. 76 db. SHA-256-$2.74 /day. Bitmain Antminer S11 (20.5Th) Nov 2018. 20.5 Th/s. 1530 W. 76 db. SHA ASIC Mining. ASICs, application specific integrated circuits, are customized chips designed for one specific purpose. In the case of bitcoin mining, it’s to perform the double SHA256 hash required to discover new bitcoin blocks. Each of HashFast’s ASIC chips contain four dies, with each die containing 96 cores, for a total of 384 cores per Canaan 13.5 TH/s Avalon 841 Bitcoin BCH BSV ASIC miner w/ 1600 watt PSU SFARDS, the company formed after the merging Gridseed and WiiBox, has just announced that they have completed their new 28nm SF3301 dual-algorithm ASIC chip manufactured using the latest in FD-SOI processing technology and have released specifications about expected power usage and performance. Antminer S7 ~4.73TH/s With 2 Fans @ .25W/GH 28nm ASIC Bitcoin Miner . 0 0 This past transaction ledger is called the block chain because it is a chain of blocks. The block chain is used to confirm transactions that have occurred to the rest of the network. Bitcoin nodes use the block chain to differentiate legitimate Bitcoin transactions

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AntMiner S5 ~1155Gh s @ 0.51W Gh 28nm ASIC Bitcoin Miner

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